Curse

yum · Dec 02, 2007, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

And I don't like the AoD shock sin so much.

I hate having my ...Utility...Exhaust the shit out of me.

Im not a warrior I need my damn energy.

hai, I r warrior and I needs energy three.

How can I use BS and Frenzy? Dance?

ensoriki · Dec 02, 2007, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

hai, I r warrior and I needs energy three.

How can I use BS and Frenzy? Dance?

Warriors are not AS energy dependent.

A warrior without energy can at least swing his axe and account for pressure.

A sin with no energy is hiding in a corner.
Or attacking with daggers and having a nice 9 damage pop up >.>

Ulterion · Dec 02, 2007, 04:42 PM // 16:42

There is no fixing assassins now. Anet's skill moderator has made it abundantly clear that the intention was weakening assassins to render them inert in PvP. Anet, just withdraw assassins if they're such a big problem. Same with paragons, ritualists, rangers, necromancers, mesmers and dervish... Just *click-click* D E L E T E GWars as a whole! XD GG? Problem solved! You will end the endless whining/complaining of failures.

Clarissa F · Dec 02, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Moral of this thread: You can win an argument, even if you're wrong.

QFT

The thread should have ended with this.

yum · Dec 02, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Warriors are not AS energy dependent.

A warrior without energy can at least swing his axe and account for pressure.

A sin with no energy is hiding in a corner.
Or attacking with daggers and having a nice 9 damage pop up >.>

Imagine an axe bar w/o shock and BS.

It sux.

Eh, don't tell me you abuse shock?

Seriously,AoD shock is a very good bar, as long as you don't abuse shock.

Issac · Dec 02, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

A lot of people say that anet designed sins badly in gw, I don't see how. Someone wanna explain lol?

Clarissa F · Dec 02, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Because people think of sins the way they think of warriors. Judging from this thread, they think that way in pvp, as well. They don't know how to handle enchants or do anti-melee, anything a three-month mesmer can do. They want to be able to do it all themselves, and if they can't, they want to make it so the sin can't do it's role. Most of those who know what a sin is "supposed" to be aren't crying, but a lot of warrior wannabes are.

If you don't see how they are designed badly, you know what a sin was made for. Another pointless thread about wanting a class to be what it's not, and Anet nerfing it because they cried.

Ulterion · Dec 02, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

Because people think of sins the way they think of warriors. Judging from this thread, they think that way in pvp, as well. They don't know how to handle enchants or do anti-melee, anything a three-month mesmer can do. They want to be able to do it all themselves, and if they can't, they want to make it so the sin can't do it's role. Most of those who know what a sin is "supposed" to be aren't crying, but a lot of warrior wannabes are.

If you don't see how they are designed badly, you know what a sin was made for. Another pointless thread about wanting a class to be what it's not, and Anet nerfing it because they cried.

I, too, feel this way.
/signed

Issac · Dec 02, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

Because people think of sins the way they think of warriors. Judging from this thread, they think that way in pvp, as well. They don't know how to handle enchants or do anti-melee, anything a three-month mesmer can do. They want to be able to do it all themselves, and if they can't, they want to make it so the sin can't do it's role. Most of those who know what a sin is "supposed" to be aren't crying, but a lot of warrior wannabes are.

If you don't see how they are designed badly, you know what a sin was made for. Another pointless thread about wanting a class to be what it's not, and Anet nerfing it because they cried.

Nicely said.

moriz · Dec 02, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

you are very wrong. kindly stop explaining things when you have no idea how they work.

Issac · Dec 02, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

If ppl have different opinions I'm sure we all would like to hear it.

fireflyry · Dec 02, 2007, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

Because people think of sins the way they think of warriors. Judging from this thread, they think that way in pvp, as well. They don't know how to handle enchants or do anti-melee, anything a three-month mesmer can do. They want to be able to do it all themselves, and if they can't, they want to make it so the sin can't do it's role. Most of those who know what a sin is "supposed" to be aren't crying, but a lot of warrior wannabes are.

If you don't see how they are designed badly, you know what a sin was made for. Another pointless thread about wanting a class to be what it's not, and Anet nerfing it because they cried.

Great point.

Shuuda · Dec 02, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Issac

If ppl have different opinions I'm sure we all would like to hear it.

True, but 90% of all opinions have no evidence to back them up, and therefor are untrue opinions, Clarissa is one of them, and we don't need/care about it.

yum · Dec 02, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

Because people think of sins the way they think of warriors. Judging from this thread, they think that way in pvp, as well. They don't know how to handle enchants or do anti-melee, anything a three-month mesmer can do. They want to be able to do it all themselves, and if they can't, they want to make it so the sin can't do it's role. Most of those who know what a sin is "supposed" to be aren't crying, but a lot of warrior wannabes are.

If you don't see how they are designed badly, you know what a sin was made for. Another pointless thread about wanting a class to be what it's not, and Anet nerfing it because they cried.

Like some1 stated in glad forum. Saying a something is not overpowered because there are counters is plain stupid.

The last sentence is so wrong that no1 with reasonable mind would have enough patience to correct it for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

you are very wrong. kindly stop explaining things when you have no idea how they work.

QFT.

Go to glad section and hopefully you can comprehend something.

ensoriki · Dec 02, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

True, but 90% of all opinions have no evidence to back them up, and therefor are untrue opinions, Clarissa is one of them, and we don't need/care about it.

opinions cannot be untrue.
Once an opinion becomes..untrue it cannot be an opinion, it has to be inaccurate information that goes against fact.
His is simply an opinion as it does not go against fact.

Scroll down to conclusion to avoid wall of text

I've been looking at the pre-made Sin build you get when you start up
Leaping mantis sting, Jungle strike,Twisting fangs, Aura of Displacement
this combo with 13 DM and 13 Critical strikes.
Cannot kill any foe from full hp,even if Jungles conditional damage does happen.
The use of this combo brings foes to 50% hp or so, with a 15 recharge on the DUAL, that is a 1hit wonder due to it being +40 damage for 10 energy at 15 seconds, something a warrior pulls off for 5 or no energy, for low recharge.
The recharge of the entire combo is pathetic, do to it only causing you to take off an additional 10-20% hp off them the second use. Not worth it for a class that cannot stay in the fray long enough.
Using it with Flourish/Moebius the DPS of the combo wen't up to a satisfactory rate. Still pathetic, the only reason I got kills in any of the places I went, HA,TA,RA,AB was because I was running Disrupting dagger other wise. It would've failed regardless of Flourish/Moebius recharging (I prefered flourish for the E-management).

With flourish the recharge of the combo is pretty much 2-3 seconds for a 20 recharge combo, 16 energy using zealous, and flourish returns 6 energy back (costs 5 energy) for a 1 energy net-gain, with 3 energy pips it's not so hard to handle, with random crits helping in between. With AoD on however, you really miss the 3 energy pips changing to Vampiric/ebony daggers doesn't help much either.

A-nets OWN pre-made build that they give to us to use, Blows ass chunks completely with barely being able to make a kill, while other pre-made builds can atleast do what they are intended to do a bit better than this.

Using
[card]Hidden Caltrops[/card][card]Unsuspecting Strike[/card][card]Jungle Strike[/card][card]Twisting Fangs[/card][card]Disrupting Dagger[/card]

The Damage output was still rather pathetic.
Oh it did impressive damage IF.

You used it on a Moving foe at above 90% hp (to trigger Unsuspecting's bonus and Hidden caltrops at the same time) Then the rest of the combo (using DD to interrupt)
It still was boring Damage for a L-O-D combo.
Taking them to about 30-45% hp and on the second use only taking them to about 10%, TF and jungles recharge really hurts it.

For the sake of purposes once again DD came to the rescue as the combo on it's own was still inferior to a warrior, Finding that DD was my savior I took Deadly haste for more testing purposes.
DH allowed the combo to kill more (do to DD becoming 5-6 recharge)
but the energy component of DH made it unreliable by draining my energy once I needed to recast it.
Striving for Damage excellence I tried.
Way of the assassin, Unsuspecting Strike,Jungle Strike, Twisting Fang's DD, Crippling Dagger Deadly haste (just to trigger WoTA, DD,CD support)
The damage was much better (With critical on each hit, when it wasn't it was still not even near O-D-O-D standards, and much slower without an IAS)
Being able to take foes from 100% hp to about 10-20% DD'ing there heal/whatever and then Auto attacking (unsuspecting for +damage when I had the energy)
I was able to score some kills faster.

as you can tell L-O-D is significantly weaker than O-D-O-D and letting an assassin use skills Out of a chain isn't going to help if damage/recharge isn't fixed.
For all the skills I had to take to make that 1 combo worth it, I was dissapointed.
I could've taken a Burning Arrow ranger and be of far more use, survive more, and have better bar compression.
Even with L-O-D, just to get a really strong damage, I had to run 2 10 energy skills.
Both that fall out of grace once you have used them once (Unsuspecting and Twisting fangs)
1 skill just to trigger another skill (hidden caltrops to work on jungle strike)
Blah it was not worth the time and effort.
Hell I felt more useful using Mending Touch on the guys who were getting Poisoned by SoJ sins >.>.

Conclusion:
All this using skills out of a chain stuff means absolutely (im sorry) Jack shit, if the
Damage(effect) per Energy , Damage per Energy, Damage per speed.
Were all out of whack.
In fact I used about as much slots as the Sp sin does to get there damage so high and consistant, with LESS effect.

Pre horns nerf you could do

GPS,Horns,FS, TF and do more damage, with better energy per damage IMO.
or BSS, Horns, Moebius TF.
or
BLS (before lead switch) Horns,FS,TF/

Which makes sense having 2 duals.

but its not even like the speed evens out.
The recharges are still pretty much JUSt as high for L-O-D and O-D-O-D
and the slots to make it work are pretty much the same (I had to take Disrupting dagger/stab/ or distracting blow/MoI, MOI not working as great do to high recharge)

Tyla · Dec 02, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

Because people think of sins the way they think of warriors. Judging from this thread, they think that way in pvp, as well. They don't know how to handle enchants or do anti-melee, anything a three-month mesmer can do. They want to be able to do it all themselves, and if they can't, they want to make it so the sin can't do it's role. Most of those who know what a sin is "supposed" to be aren't crying, but a lot of warrior wannabes are.

If you don't see how they are designed badly, you know what a sin was made for. Another pointless thread about wanting a class to be what it's not, and Anet nerfing it because they cried.

i like to play sin myself.
i like to play shadow prison.
but guess what?
sins are IMBA.
shadowstepping and instagib = broken profession that has been designed badly.
if they can do small busts of spike damage,that would possibly fix it.
and seriously - you sound like someone who wants sin instagib only.
sins dont even get decent self defense tbh, A.sins arent designed for anti-melee.
B.sins arent designed to handle enchants
C:sins are ment for instagib then quick escape
D:instagib isnt a broken mechanic then its bad for the game - which it already is

ensoriki · Dec 02, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

i like to play sin myself.
i like to play shadow prison.
but guess what?
sins are IMBA.
shadowstepping and instagib = broken profession that has been designed badly.
if they can do small busts of spike damage,that would possibly fix it.
and seriously - you sound like someone who wants sin instagib only.
sins dont even get decent self defense tbh, A.sins arent designed for anti-melee.
B.sins arent designed to handle enchants
C:sins are ment for instagib then quick escape
D:instagib isnt a broken mechanic then its bad for the game - which it already is

Incorrect.
Its not sins are imba.
its that Sin's have had IMBA combo's for too long >.>

Without those combo's......the sin's effectiveness drops.

Technically assassins have some decent Self-defense.

By that I mean, Dark escape,Feigned and Return only =P

It's hard to say what assassins are Designed for Tyla.
When you look at the skills ,it really does look like A-net tried to make it some kinda hybrid. Then you look at how weak many of them are, and you figure A-net wants them only to instagib with the few useful skills >.> Mixed bag.

Tyla · Dec 02, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Incorrect.
Its not sins are imba.
its that Sin's have had IMBA combo's for too long >.>

Without those combo's......the sin's effectiveness drops.

Technically assassins have some decent Self-defense.

By that I mean, Dark escape,Feigned and Return only =P

It's hard to say what assassins are Designed for Tyla.
When you look at the skills ,it really does look like A-net tried to make it some kinda hybrid. Then you look at how weak many of them are, and you figure A-net wants them only to instagib with the few useful skills >.> Mixed bag.

if the sin has imba combos i thought it made it imba due to very few variations of skillsets.
mind you thats an easy mistake to make.

ensoriki · Dec 02, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

if the sin has imba combos i thought it made it imba due to very few variations of skillsets.
mind you thats an easy mistake to make.

...you can be imbalanced by being too weak.

So I guess the assassins are IMBA, either way >.>
Overall weak >.> Specifically (insta-gib combo's) strong.

Also did you read my L-O-D post on the previous page?

Proves how some of the suggestions here wont work.

Because even with out of sequence the combo's are still just as weak.

Tyla · Dec 02, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

meh. guess your right - ive not been on my sin lately lol